Bad Game Design Super Paper Mario

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Super Paper Mario is my least favourite game in the series

Thread starter Jonneh3003
Start date Jan 7, 2017
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I admire it for being different and the flip mechanic is cool is heck but that's where my praise ends. Super Paper Mario feels like a fan fiction with a Mario face stapled on the box. It almost makes me understand why Miyamoto was in favour of stripping Paper Mario down to its basics, there doesn't seem to be a clear direction in Super Paper Mario, it wants to be a clever puzzle platformer but it also won't completely let go of the RPG mechanics from the previous two entries. The writing is often hilarious and genuinely well written but man is there a lot of it, they really needed to edit some of it down.

Not only is the gameplay focus inconsistent but so is the art style, I can get behind the doodle aesthetic but it completely clashes with the current Paper Mario style, it just looks weird to see Goombas strut alongside some weirdly drawn pigs. Even if everything fell under the same art style we would still have atrocious character designs like this:

I don't hate the game by any means and I love that they tried to do something new after two mechanically similar entries but I just don't think SPM is well designed. The majority of levels are tedious and poorly paced, the writing is bloated, the character designs are the worst in the series and I think I even prefer Sticker Star over it. Sure Sticker Star is dull but at least it's consistent and has a clear focus.

I don't think there's a bad game in the Paper Mario series but Super Paper Mario ranks as my overall least favourite Mario platformer.

Of all the abstract, wonky character designs in that game, you pick one of the really nice ones as an example.

Wasn't this game the result of Miyamoto telling the team to strip their game down to its basics in the same vein as Sticker Star, just in gameplay instead of story? It does take more creative liberty than any Paper Mario before it, I'll admit that. That said, it probably would be my favorite Paper Mario game if the gameplay wasn't so simple. I never really felt it to be a fanfiction, just way too far from what is expected in a Mario story. I really enjoyed the writing and the characters in it, and the world it takes place in is so diverse and entertaining. Though I will admit the character design is pretty basic. It doesn't bother me, but it isn't anything special.

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It almost makes me understand why Miyamoto was in favour of stripping Paper Mario down to its basics.

He wasn't. He was in favor of removing everything unique about the franchise to make it homogeneous with his dear NSMB series.

: Jun 26, 2005

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It's pretty bad and the amount of dialogue is ludicrous.

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never really felt it to be a fanfiction, just way too far from what is expected in a Mario story. .

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Disagree. SPM is one of my favorite PM games. It had a amazing story, fantastic soundtrack, memoryable characters and cool quests. I also love the art style.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Not my intention. I really liked the story, but it's admittedly pretty far from any other Mario RPG in that regard.

: Dec 3, 2006

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First game in my life I fell asleep playing. Game is VERY boring.

So... Have you played Sticker Star?

He wasn't. He was in favor of removing everything unique about the franchise to make it homogeneous with his dear NSMB series.

Before or after he literally ate all those delicious side characters? Some sources for those allegations or be gone with baseless nonsense.

I liked it; didn't love it.
I DESPISE Sticker Star.

So... Have you played Sticker Star?

Yep, it's a bit dull but I felt it was generally well designed. There are a few glaring flaws but I think it's a better overall game than SPM.

One of the issues with SPM is that it starts out really slow. The game is heavily story-driven but the story in the first 3 chapters is very boring. It eventually gets a lot better with the introduction of Mr. L and other crazy shenanigans but it's very bad at the beggining.

The gameplay is IMO very fun but it also starts out slow. When you battle tougher enemies and have more characters/pixls to use it's actually very good.

I like it well enough. Interesting scenarios, good humor, nice main story. There is a lot of text though. I'd probably agree that it is the least pleasant looking paper mario game. Overall, it is certainly leaps and bounds better than Sticker Star.

Plus Mr. L if fun

Well with Paper Mario Color Splash out, it's now my 4th liked PM game. Never played Sticker Star, so you guys should know how I like the others.

It has my favorite story though.

Disagree vastly.

It had some great level's, story and characters and one of the best and truest quotes of all times.
I can agree with you if you said it isn't quite on the level of the Thousand Years Door, but worst of them all? Nope.

Franz Brötchen;227841150 said:

Before or after he literally ate all those delicious side characters? Some sources for those allegations or be gone with baseless nonsense.

Miyamoto wanted to know if they could make the game only using characters from the established Super Mario universe (this is in refernce Sticker Star). After playing an early build of the Paper Mario 3DS, he said it felt too much like the GameCube game.

Here's the quote from Tanabe:

Tanabe: Aside from wanting us to change the atmosphere a lot, there were two main things that Miyamoto-san said from the start of the project-"It's fine without a story, so do we really need one?" and "As much as possible, complete it with only characters from the Super Mario world.

Some people would say the story and characters help separate Paper Mario and make it unique.

It's pretty bad and the amount of dialogue is ludicrous.

Pretty bad? Hyperbole or are you serious? Yes the game is way too wordy but it isn't bad. Played it almost a decade ago and can still remember the flip mechanic which led to cool puzzle solving and memorable characters. Tippi (spelling?) was pretty awesome and I loved the art style. It also has a great sense of humor.

Disagree vastly.
It had some great level's, story and characters and one of the best and truest quotes of all times. I can agree with you if you said it isn't quite on the level of the Thousand Years Door, but worst of them all? Nope.

The dialogue is indeed great.

The weird original designs is partly what kept me uninterested / away from this game.
A friend has it lying around tho so I'll be giving it a fair shot eventually, now that I finished Color Splash. Was thinking of replaying the first two entries first then check out SPM and Sticker Star for the first time.

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It's my favorite in series by a large margin. The writing is the best in the series and the rpg gameplay was never that good to begin with.

Yeah the game is not good.

Yeah the game is not good.

I wouldn't go that far but it isnt as good as the rest of the series.

Yep, it's a bit dull but I felt it was generally well designed. There are a few glaring flaws but I think it's a better overall game than SPM.

I know it's your opinion and all but... there's no way!

Sticker Star had some super, big glaring flaws. From a clear lack of progression, to the nonsensical puzzles and boss fights just generally being terrible. It was really unfun.

Sticker Star and Color Splash tho...

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Pretty bad? Hyperbole or are you serious? Yes the game is way too wordy but it isn't bad. Played it almost a decade ago and can still remember the flip mechanic which led to cool puzzle solving and memorable characters. Tippi (spelling?) was pretty awesome and I loved the art style. It also has a great sense of humor.

It did have a good sense of humor. I just didn't like the game design and reading through that much text in a Paper Mario game was a huge turnoff for me. Didn't think it was very good.

Not calling it the worst game ever-- that'd be hyperbole

Super Paper Mario has pretty much all the negative points of a Paper Mario game dialled up to 11.
Wasting the players time on multiple deliberate occasions going beyond a joke like other entries successfully manage, arse loads of text, craptacular combat, utterly pointless items because the RPGs had them, backtracking to the MAX, bland visuals.
It just keeps going like that.

Like i have said countless times, TTYD is the only actually good Paper Mario game, even the original was just from mediocre to "okay".

I quite liked it during my initial playthrough, not as much as the first two that i replayed multiple times, but i still liked it.

Really liked the humor in the dialogue and found the 2d/3d game-play a blast to play.

For me, my least favorite would be sticker star. I just found its battle system and story boring to play.
After a few hours, i returned and replaced it with a copy Mario & Luigi : Dream Team.

It's my favorite in series by a large margin. The writing is the best in the series and the rpg gameplay was never that good to begin with.

Why do Paper Mario threads always attract the people with the edgiest takes? The guy who said Paper Mario 1 is mediocre, same thing...

It should be everyone's least favorite imo. It's still somewhat worth playing I think, but it's a tedious game. Sticker Star and especially Color Splash saved the franchise (I'm serious btw).

It should be everyone's least favorite imo. It's still somewhat worth playing I think, but it's a tedious game. Sticker Star and especially Color Splash saved the franchise (I'm serious btw).

I...disagree heavily.

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.

I thought it was right up there with PM and TTYD. The change in gameplay didn't even bother me.

Sticker Star and Color Splash don't know what they want to be. SPM is a platformer RPG, and I feel comfortable putting it under the RPG umbrella. SS and CS are... something else, like they're stuck in a limbo that isn't anything. Turn based battles with no numbers? Either be an RPG or don't. Color Splash brought back good writing, but they need to do something about the gameplay in this series.

Nope. It was the last PM with endearing new characters and the writing was as good as ever. The gameplay was incredibly solid too.

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It's one of my favourite games(probably my favourite Mario game), I hope they toss away the turn based system for the next game, and just do a SPM in 3D, but even crazier.

It's certainly better than the first two games with better writing and superior gameplay. Haven't played the last two, but from what I've heard I'd doubt they would come close to dethroning SPM as the best in the series.

Even if everything fell under the same art style we would still have atrocious character designs like this:

This is an atrocious character design?

It's a great game. Not as good as the two before it, but it's certainly better than Sticker Star.

Super Paper Mario is actually one of my least favorite Nintendo-published games, period.

This is an atrocious character design?

It's definitely a step down from the original:

(i know, not the same character, but it's basically a palette swap)

Color Splash brought back good writing, but they need to do something about the gameplay in this series.

They did, they turned it into an adventure game. I hope they go even further with it for future games.

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I really enjoyed it for some reason. Never really understood why people dislike it so much but that's how it goes.

I think a big issue with Super Paper Mario is that it prides itself in annoying the player and sometimes takes its jokes a bit too far. Like, acknowledging that the wall of text is boring by having Mario fall asleep in the middle of it doesn't make the wall of text not boring. Just like how Paper Jam and Colour Splash jokingly say "oh no, looks like Peach has been kidnapped yet again, how unexpected!" Then they send you on your way to save Peach from Bowser with no twists whatsoever.

Back on SPM, yeah it's not that great from a gameplay perspective. I like the story and I love the villains, especially the one that's totally not Luigi. Character designs are a mixed bag that range from cool to autoshapes. But to be honest I'd definitely take it over Sticker Star, a game I found to have no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

Thousand Year door has the right mix between familiarity and new. Lots of new characters, but also lots of new takes on old characters and existing species in the Mushroom Kingdom. And the gameplay was on point.

I like it very much. Haven't finished it yet, bought it for my Wii U from a sale.

And all those saying that there's too much text... Really? First people complain that there's no story or anything and then others complain about the amount of text. Am I missing something here?

But the game is great and I love the flipping mechanic.

EDIT. I don't like SMRPG or others at all, so might be different strokes.

Super Paper Mario is great. Design wise it loses some fat, but that wasn't necessarily a bad thing.

The only bland one is Sticker Star so far.

They did, they turned it into an adventure game. I hope they go even further with it for future games.

Indeed, just drop the RPG pretence entirely at this point.

Cuningas de Häme;227842936 said:

And all those saying that there's too much text... Really? First people complain that there's no story or anything and then others complain about the amount of text. Am I missing something here?

Super Paper Mario and Sticker Star are like on opposite extremes, SPM just goes on and on, Sticker Star has incredibly little character and plot to go on so they both are weak in this department in their own way.

The other three titles strike the right balance.

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I love SPM, not as much as the first game or TTYD but it is still great. Sticker Star is legit bad, one of the few Nintendo games I consider as such. I haven't played Color Splash and while it looks better than Sticker Star it still looks like it is missing a lot of what made Paper Mario great and still has the pointless battles.

I would rate the Mario RPGs I have played:

TTYD>SMRPG>Super Star Saga>Paper Mario>Super Paper Mario>Partners in Time>Sticker Star

Cuningas de Häme;227842936 said:

And all those saying that there's too much text... Really? First people complain that there's no story or anything and then others complain about the amount of text. Am I missing something here?

You're missing the fact that there's a lot of room between too much text and no story whatsoever. You can remove the long, droning exposition that Mario himself sleeps through without cutting out all the original villains and making Bowser mute.

Indeed, just drop the RPG pretence entirely at this point.

If they went all in and actually managed to make a decent Paper Mario graphic adventure, I might actually be interested in the series again.

Just pick a genre, dammit.

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